Online Workshop for Story of South African Jazz V2
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South African Swiss Jazz and the bird's eye jazz venue

There is a deep passion for South African jazz music in Switzerland. Yet, the power of these jazz collaborations goes beyond geographic lines. It is purely about the music. South Africa Jazz in Switzerland has a rich history dating back to the arrival of Abdullah Ibrahim (then Dollar Brand) and Sathima Bea Benjamin in Switzerland in 1962. Johnny Gertze (bass) and Makaya Ntshoko (drums) joined them to make up the quartet and the musicians took a residency at the Africana jazz club in Zurich. The Blue Notes had their first appearance there in 1964. Jam sessions often developed with Swiss musicians including trumpeter Franco Ambrosetti.

By 1968 the Africana was converted into a hotel. Makaya made Basel his hometown. He recorded for Enja records with ‘The Tsotsis,' including Swiss musicians, Heinz Sauer (sax), Bob Degen (piano) and Isla Eckinger (bass) in 1978 and ‘The New Tostsi's including founder of the bird's eye jazz club in Basel, Stephan Kurmann (bass) in 2008.

During the late eighties, the Swiss radio station kept up a strong support for the Anti-Apartheid and other solidarity movements by playing jazz, mbaqanga, soul, reggae, pop and protest music. Artists in exile were invited to perform at rallies.

The Willisau international Jazz festival near Lucerne provides a platform for SA jazz with the Brotherhood of Breath with Chris McGregor, Dudu Pukwana, Mongezi Feza and Louis Moholo, Abdullah Ibrahim and Johnny Dyani playing there regularly. In 2009 Zim Ngqawana achieved a life-long dream of performing there .

I n 2004 the Centre for African Studies at the University of Basel and the bird's eye jazz club embarked on a fruitful cooperation to create a long term relationship with South Africa jazz. The stream of music that had gently flowed between the two countries, suddenly become a gushing river of opportunity for jazz musicians.

After initial performances by the Bheki Mseleku Quintet and, the Goema Captains of Cape Town, residency programmes ensued. South African jazz musicians have had the ongoing opportunity to stay in Basel for one or two months at a time, to collaborate with both young and established musicians, develop new ideas, workshop, record live, engage in adult education and teach at the Basel Jazz School. Residents to date have included Feya Faku, Siya Makuzeni, Hilton Schilder, Carlo Mombelli, Marcus Wyatt, Bokani Dyer and Herbie Tsoaeli. The bird's eye has created a musical archive of live recorded gems. The musicians are given exceptionally favourable conditions to publish their works.

Founder of The Orbit jazz restaurant, Aymeric Péguillan consulted with the bird's eye and received the necessary advise, inspiration and in-kind support for the manifestation of his dream. Today, The Orbit is a part of the Braamfontein revival and is a pioneer in bringing jazz back to Jozi. It is a happening place and international space with top quality jazz in a comfortable setting.

Interview Viet Arlt

I picked up online you were a professor at the University?

First thing I am not a professor, I am executive manager of the Centre for African studies. I am a historian by profession and did my phd on the history of Ghana, accommodation of mission and colonialism. In the course of that research I came across a collection. First of all I was interested in popular music as a side to my research. Then I stumbled across a collection of historic sound recordings from the 30's and 50's which had been done by a Swiss trading company. I set out to digitise that collection and we produced a sampler to highlight what is in the collection and the raising of funds and then eventually we launched the CD and bring the digitised music back to Ghana, then got in touch with Ghanaian musicians. One of them was a musician who recorded with that very company in the 1950's. Did performances in Ghana for the launch and also brought that same outfit to Switzerland. That was my first applied music thing. I did a performance tour with workshops concerts academic presentations and a small conference around West African Pop roots Highlife music origins in Ghana in 2002 and then 2004 I did this project with SA Jazz making use of the expertise I had gained in the first project of Ghana music. From the first show one thing resulted in another so we have had a continuous stream. It was highly successful and for me quite easy to organise because in the jazz idiom you find a ready audience, you find it easy to bring in individual musicians to perform with the Swiss musicians, so you don't necessarily have to bring a whole line up from South Africa which really makes it easy for me to organise.

The musician we brought over was a Ghanaian musician who in the mean time has passed away, Kwami Nyama. He was a very rural musician playing his West African finger picking style of guitar and he had been sticking to the same idiom from the 50's to the 90's which was fantastic.

Who recorded it?

There was a company in the 30's of German engineers from the Parlophone et Audio Label. This is sub labels of EMI. Then in the 50's I met one guy who did the recording for this Basel Trading company called UTC, Union Trade Company of Switzerland. He was actually not a recording specialist just an employee of this trading company and since he was interested in music, his director said why don't you try this recording thing. He gave him totally free hand on what to record.

He took his mobile apparatus to Ghana Nigeria and basically just moved along the trading network of that company. Whatever town he came to, he spread word, yes we can do recordings and they came. Everyone coming in like the church choirs, and the executioners of the king of Ashanti, concert party bands to swing bands, everything. He did his recordings at the premises of the trading companies in store rooms. The acoustics are quite interesting at times. Of course he only had one microphone capturing whatever outfit from trip to 26 piece band, to the police band. There is a quite interesting story he told me how he went about to arrange the musicians, put the claver far away from the guitar and trying to cope with the fact that musicians in Ghana mostly sing falsetto because their voices carry much further. It is really a tough challenge to record a guitarist who is singing falsetto at the same time. Recorded by Kaegi.

ILAM?

I wrote a little piece on that I can send it to you. I actually presented my research at the time of the grounding of Swiss Air 2001 my first research and findings, we had just released a compact disk. I was working on a paper so I went round and presented the paper and also a recording with it. So ILAM is also in the picture but it is also buried somewhere at the archives.

Makaya Ntshoko I see in 1978 he recorded at the Birds Eye with the New Tsotsi's was that one of the first kind of collaborations between South African Swiss musicians?

I should put you in connection with Stephen Kuruman he is the director of the Birds Eye. The Birds Eye didn't start as early as that, the Birds Eye is celebrating its 20 years anniversary. It is quite young. Makaya was in town from 70's and the people he was performing with there were regular jazz musicians from the scene here. It is indicative of how he was anchored in the network. How he was performing with musicians from the Basel scene and also internationally. At the same time you have Hanniball in Antibes and other recordings that point to his international network. I tried to interview him. I once put together a write up and interview I did with him in 2006. I did a telephone interview with him. There he put quite a bit. I will send you that. It is for sure not complete. He is somebody who is quite difficult to interview. On the one hand he is not so aware how important he is and how important it is to pass on ones story and on the other hand he has been disappointed so many time by other journalists that he doesn't feel like giving out any information. In that interview I tried to move along those things I already knew and tried to get a little closer as to what is in addition to that. I tried to ask him about his time before leaving South Africa, before King Kong, the Jazz Epistles and his own band, the Jazz Giants, hanging out at Dorkay House and his participation in Jazz Fantasia by Gideon Nxumalo. It is really, he was quite illusive but still you have a few things in there that is authorised by him. You have a few references. He also says without indicating a precise time that he was running in those days jazz workshops at the music school in Basel before there was a jazz school, around rhythm, African music. He was not very precise about it, but yes. The workshops were not a structural thing, but the thing he does for a semester, or if it is repeated I don't know.

I have a political question. South African Jazz was related to the struggle in that it brought people together. It is interesting for me to see there is a unity between Swiss and SA jazz?

In terms of the reception of South African jazz that is closely linked to the solidarity movement, the anti apartheid movement and so on. If you look at the big exile names, everybody was performing for rallies, ant apartheid movements, solidarity campaigns and so on. They were inspired by Blue Notes and so on. South African jazz already in the country was this kind of expression, assertion of humanity and urban modernity vis a vis a system that relegated blacks to a rural origin, to being no urbanites, to be traditional. Of course something which was exactly supporting the argument of Swiss members of the solidarity movement. It was a clear expression of exactly that that black South Africans were cosmopolitan and not the way the regime presented them and it didn't stop at rondavels in the Transkei so to speak. There was an urban African culture, people were intellectual and very aware of what was happening in the world as far as they could have access to that information. People from the solidarity movement, people were having all these records at home. I have a list of music, LP collection I got from Swiss radio station that is quite interesting as it shows what is typical. Lets see I check for South Africa. Typically f course Dollar Brand… Bongi Makeba, not so impressive. Dollar Brand again. Kind of 80's 90's Freedom Fire, the Indestructible Beat of Soweto, that is more mbaqanga, pop. Sounds of Soweto, some reggae but also Bishop Desmond Tutu give praises where praise is deserved 1988. Also the soundtrack of Cry Freedom of course and Bayakhaleni , Mzansi Zulu dancers, a little bit more cultural. Big Ears music and Nyazi Palaka , never heard of that name. Ah, Stimela, the other one was a Lesotho band, Soul Brothers 1985, Mahlatini, Mahotella Queens and all these Blue Notes, etc. Those and also the sound of the Moshoeshoe, Sakhile, Malombo brothers, Dudu Pukwana of course was big. Dudu recorded at Willisau at the jazz festival so there is a live recording from the early 80's. Live at Bracknell, Willisau. Wilisau is that stage where free jazz really found a platform. And it is interesting to check out the discography of the Willisau festival. Go to the website Willisau and check with them when they had the first South African artists and so on. And there is this nice story that Willisau was also for Zim, kind of the so to say one of the final steps in Switzerland was making it to the stage in Willisau and that really was possible through those first concerts at the Birds Eye that he got this exposure here. I am a little bit proud of that even though I don't have much to do with getting him there. Things started moving on its own.

In around 2004 when the SA jazz exchange happens in Basel, you moved to become artistic director of the Birds Eye. Was that the start of the exchange?


I didn't become artistic director, I am a partner in the set up. I am at the university and have very good relationships with the Birds Eye and its artistic director and founder of the club Stephen Kuruman the base player. Also with the president of the club and also the patron of the Birds Eye who has a big heart for Southern Africa. This club has this kind of family groove. Why these musicians feel so much at home. The musicians coming from South Africa are always amazed that people concentrate 100% on the music. It is a typical European audience in that sense. Less interaction and clapping at the solos and at the end of the tunes but not this kind of firing on the musicians, or abusing them at times or whatever. It is really respectful, very focused and that is the one thing musicians are very fond of.

For once they are far from being a side thing of an evening they are really in the limelight and have the full freedom to express themselves, they don't have to heed any audience, like in Cape Town I notice musicians are requested to play standards just to prove that they know to play jazz. The original compositions have very little room there. People are not allowed to move on. Here they can do all that they can. Really come with their original compositions. Sometimes it is easy to market or present somebody. I fall into the trap that I say SA jazz and people associate with that mbaqanga, kwela, the flavours of Abdullah and so on. But also Johnny Dyani and Dudu Pukwana. That being said Alex Van Heerden and Hilton Schilder played the Rock Art stuff here and that caught on very well. That was the first shows I did and I was also a little sceptical so we mixed it into two sets. The first set we did was a little bit more Cape Jazzy, Goema Captains stuff and the second set it was Rock Art. The following year from the beginning it was just Rock Art and New stuff from South Africa and Hilton and then Hilton did his residency and recorded his ‘Elements of Surprise,' which was very different from what he has done before.

Regarding the residency project … is there a vision for exchange with the Orbit. The Orbit do week long residency's of artists.

That kind of residency exists in Switzerland as a showcasing of one musician and that is less at the Birds Eye, it would be The Moods Jazz Club in Zurich. What we try to do is give musicians space to develop projects that they want to develop. Some of them make use of it and come for six weeks, eight weeks. Others like Herbie just come for three weeks and what they do. We always want them to perform with different line-ups. We don't make one South African week which. You risk to loose people. It is more in the frame of a monthly programme it is much more interesting to distribute those South African concerts over the length of the month. For instance with Herbie we started with two nights as a duo, then two nights with a quintet and then end will two nights as a quartet.

With Feya it was a similar thing. There was a classic thing we did with Feya, he performed with students from the jazz school. He did 4 rehearsals with the students from the jazz school then two performances with them. Then he performed in a quintet with the established cats here, really top musicians and that then became the Swiss SA Jazz quintet which toured SA in 2007. He also engaged in adult education teaching, workshops that the jazz club does we did this as a collaboration and called this Music as Protest under apartheid and I gave the narrative and Feya was presenting the music that went with it.

That is the format we started and continued. With Hilton it was the same thing, there was a student band, his ‘Elements of Surprise,' quintet with violin and so on. There was the Rock Art duo. He also worked with a Malay choir and the same applied to Carlo Mombelli. He also had 3 different outfits. Marcus Wyatt same thing. With Herbie we didn't do it. On one hand the timing was not so good, the period we brought him was not conducive to working with students from the jazz school. And the jazz school just moved places so they were very absorbed and couldn't do long term planning for the year. Also the challenge was Herbie didn't bring any written music. It would have been fine for the jazz students, they would have appreciated it and got a lot of out of it. It was just too difficult to sell it to the director of the jazz school. Once one knows the musicians then it becomes easier. Next time Herbie comes again in two years time it will be far easier to get him into the jazz school or do a project with students. As it was now we did a three week thing. He arrived did two rehearsals with the duo and already one rehearsal with the quartet he is playing with at the end of the month. Then the two rehearsals with the quintet. He is left with another rehearsal with the quartet and then they will perform. Inbetween, he was very busy last week. This week he had a bit more time. What he is doing right now is looking at the live recordings that were done of the four shows so far and is selecting tunes that might be released. All the stuff is live recorded at the Birds Eye. And if the musicians agree and they are invited to release the stuff there are very good conditions. They don't pay for recordings but once it is released they have to deliver a box of CD's to the club. Which is very nice. And it has to say ‘Live at the Birds Eye,' somewhere at the title. If it is not they pay a bulk fee of 50 Francs for the recording. Which is OK!

What is the name of the jazz school?

Previously it was the jazz school of Basel. Now it's been incorporated for five years or so into the school of music which is comprising the conservatory and then the specialised school, kind of a research unit for performance practice of early music. Basel is a centre for Baroch music. It's a really renowned school so that is also part of the same set up. The Jazz school although everyone refers to it as the Jazz school of Basel, if you do it correctly, it is now within the school for applied sciences in the North West of Switzerland. It's part of the music schools and here it is the department of jazz. You can carry on calling it the Basel jazz school.

You mentioned Zim recorded there. Do you have an archive?

Exactly. I keep all the stuff. I have accept for that one year when Zim was there was actually a hiccup. It was very good that Zim went ahead and just released. He didn't even ask for the multi-track recording. He just went ahead and released the rough mix. He was supposed to finish it and loved the sound so much already that he just released it. The sound engineer was quite shocked. He knew whatever would be missing and he would have wanted to do with it but Zim didn't mind and thought it was the sound he wanted to have. It speaks also for the quality of the rough mix. In that year a thing that must not happen happened. Somebody, probably an artist took away the hard drive, an external hard drive which at one stage had all the recordings of that year. It was completely worthless to the person who took it, they would have taken it just for the hard drive and not the music. There is this one gap we have. I don't know exactly whether it was the full year but there are some recording missing. Otherwise we have most of it. Partly it is with the musicians. They take the material along. On Alex Van Heerden's Notebook are the whole recording sessions they have done in Basel, including a whole album, a new Rock Art album. And so on. I don't know what happened to those recordings.

Did you keep copies of that?

Not of everything, not of the album they recorded. Most of the stuff that has been recorded is at the Birds Eye archives. The hiccup was very fortunate and covers part of the South African gigs but is not impacting on the whole thing/. Musicians walk away always with the rough mix, they since 4 years there has been this live stream so they also get the livestream for download and htat is also what I save on my computer as a routine thing. The recordings I only store in my personal archives if I am implied in it, else it is on the one hand it is property of the musician and Birds Eye, so in the case of Zim I am very sad I didn't take a copy of that.

And Also Alex?

Ya, exactly.

A final question is the Rainmakers collaboration. That will be happening in 2015 at the CTF and Orbit and Birds Eye.

Exactly they have two Swiss touts, one in Spring and one in Summer. The one who has been pushing the thing is Baenz Oester the bassist. He is a teacher at the jazz school Basel. He is one of the very fine jazz musicians of Switzerland and he was involved in one of the exchanges and next thing he went to South Africa and then from there was this cooperation with Ayanda and Afrika which resulted in the Rainmakers. It is emblematic that I do these things. But I see myself as a facilitator. I bring musicians in as a first thing. And then from these encounters, many things start to happen. We have seen a good number of very successful projects resulting with long time friendships and collaborations. This is definitely one of them. The Rainmakers, the first tour, Baenz had already organised, but I advised him how to go about the permits and gave him suggestions how to raise funds and so on. Road support, letters for the embassy and so on and then after that it all started moving on its own and that is the ideal form. You offer first a platform to allow for this exchange and exposure and the thing starts moving on its own. The same applies to Carlo, Marcus, Bokani, Mac Mckenzie of course, although I still had a lot in it. He went about his own thing and by now he is really moving quite independently here.

And the saxophone player Ganesh?

I only met him when he started to play with Baenz. He is a wonderful musician. You will find more info on him on his website.

Thank you

One person you will be able to speak with is Olivia Le Deur . He is a French journalist from Paris. He writes for this magazine Improv. Jazz focusing on improvised music. He really likes South African jazz and he comes to almost all concerts. He comes to Basel from Paris. Luckily you can buy cheap high speed train tickets. He always writes about it. He goes regularly to South Africa to do interviews. He is a bit special. On the one hand there is always this translation thing there are some hiccups in the writing as he doesn't grab all the English and German references, and a few misspellings and when you talk to him he has quite a special attitude which is due to the fact that he once had a brain trauma or a fractured skull. He stopped regular work at the time and he has got back into working. He is sharp but is also on his thing. It explains some of his passion. The South African thing is one of the things that has been carrying him after the trauma. He might be able to send you copies of what he wrote in French. He will come to interview Makaya next weekend. I don't know whether he will succeed. It will be good to hook up with him to have a reciprocal relation.

Thanks Vite he sounds a lot like me. My spelling is very bad, particularly with all these South African names it is hard to get it 100% write.

Well I will gladly assist you with the spelling of the Swiss names. On record sleeves very often the spellings are wrong. I will gladly read through anything you write and assist in editing and cross checking and give indications where you might be over stating your point.

There was something when you said Basel was a Baroch centre. One thing in Abdullah Ibrahim's music is the use of the minor intervals. It is the same in Baroch music. Could it be the minor interval that brings Swiss and SA Jazz together … or am I overstating the point?

The one thing about South African jazz which strikes a chord and makes it successful internationally even in its free-est idioms, you always have illusions to mbaqanga and the kind of the pentatonic stuff to this deep harmonies of the Eastern Cape which strikes a chord. There is rhythm. A lot of the music even if it is free, in places there is reference to this very danceable music. And then there are these churchy harmonies. Even with people who are not into church at all, it makes the music very sacred. It is a very important element for the music of Abdullah. It reaches something. People have these harmonies somewhere deep in their subconscious. They may be complete atheists and counter church and so on but the harmony of this church tunes really reaches everybody. These are three elements, the Baroch thing, ja well maybe, maybe in a sense that people get many of the jazz musicians learn their instruments in the music school early on and during their school days and they build from Mozart, Taylorman, whoever. If you look at Swiss jazz to get a complete overview you will find a lot of very American hard bop bebop whatever, trying to immolate Coltrane, Mingus the big names. People look at Berkeley and that is the hippest thing to go to Berkeley for half a year or a year. And at some times it becomes very intellectual and abstract even among the jazz students. Herbie's assistant asked me to send some indications of Swiss jazz and I sent a very biased selection which in the end are all musicians performing with the South African cats coming here and then in their performances you find references to this encounter. I said you must not take this as the sole thing. Check around what is happening in Switzerland and you will find different stuff.

Interview Baenz Oester 04/12/2014


I have been twice to Grahamstown festival, 2011. That is where I met Afrika and Ayanda. I spent a great time there getting to know the major young jazz musicians from South Africa. We came back with the Rainmakers this year and both of them were really great experiences. Great players and great beings, so that is lovely. Nowadays there are quite a few collaborations going on, also through the initiative of the Birds Eye jazz club in Basel and one person from the African Institute of the University of Basel, his name is Vite Arlt. He is also inviting musicians.

I see you did a live recording at the Birds Eye … will you do more?

I never collaborated directly with Vite for the Rainmakers. He gave me some help, because he knows some administrational details he knows better. And I call him for advice. One time he was also using Afrika and Ayanda when they came here for the first time so we can share some expenses. We never really collaborated.

Performing at the Birds Eye again in February?

We have ten gigs coming up in February. We have played at the Willisau festival in August this year. And this was a great gig and it has been recorded by the radio. And I am just about to finalise the recording treatment and I am about to find a label for this. And we are going to bring out this as our next publication. Live in Willisau, hopefully I can get this out sometime next year. I haven't really found the record company yet, so this will be the issue for the next days. I will have to finalise the master tonight, so after tomorrow I will start looking into that. One of the tracks is on the website, Amsterdam. (Composition by Jacques Brel). This will be the opening track of the CD.

Listening to this track online: Deeply sonorous, rising out of the mysterious. It is a sweat and simple melody, a folk song. It is also known under other names. In Celtic, English folk music tradition it is called Greensleeves and Greensleeves of course was performed by John Coltrane. An upfront version, jazz upfront and more than one horn. On Amsterdam, Gaenz takes the melody at a very slow pace, creating space for Ayanda, Baenz and Afrika to contribute in a sometimes extended soundscaping. It keeps us this melancholic and sedate path.

African rhythm, how is it playing with South Africans is there a rhythmical change?

Our rhythmical exchange is based on jazz rhythm. The four of us before anything else are jazz musicians and we basically relate through our jazz experience and then of course Afrika and Ayanda have grown up in South Africa and are very familiar with all kinds of African rhythms and I am a little bit because I used to play with a West African guy for quite a long time back in the late 90's and early 00's together with Malcolm Graaf so I got curious in African rhythms and did my own research. I would never call myself an expert but have my own ideas. We basically relate through jazz rhythm.

South African jazz they say the one is up but for White people their one is down and they work hard to catch that, do you find that?

I have felt and heard this also in other African music, that the one is light, not heavy and of course I tried to get into that which is a little more difficult for us, it is not our culture, our culture does have a heavyweight on the one, that is true. This idea is very inspiring to us.

Have you come across Makaya Ntshoko?

Yes I played a gig with him and during our first tour with the Rainmakers in 2012 we were invited by Makaya to have dinner with him. It was a very lovely evening.

He was doing workshops in Basel on the concept of African rhythm?

Unfortunately I don't know him too well. We did one gig, I met him a couple of times and that is about it. There are other people who know him much more than I do. He is a sweetheart, we all love him really.

Looking at some of the compositions I find on your soundcloud, I see you share the composing?

Most of the original compositions are from Afrika and me and now from the last two rehearsal we played one tune of Ayanda's. But, basically we are open to any ideas. There is no concept behind that, that is just the way it is now. Another idea I was bringing in was some Swiss folk tunes and even some pop tunes and some folk tunes from Eastern Europe which has been another big passion of mine for the last twenty twenty five years. I have been doing a lot of research into Bulgarian, Macedonian and Turkish music, which I am very fascinated with. It is an interesting challenge for us to try and bring this together with South African jazz musicians. In some cases its works quite nicely but it doesn't always work I have to admit, but in some cases we had some nice things come up because the rhythmical ideas between Africa and Eastern Europe and Jazz are really different. SO it is not always easy to marry these two things. And the marriage is what we need to make it sound so. We did succeed in a couple of cases. One of the compositions is Lele Devla. There is a version around on Youtube. We have another one we did not publish it yet. I will come up with one or two more ideas on the next tour definitely. Let's rehearse first. Then I will see.

In 2014 your tour to SA will be made into a film including the village of Lady Frere and the Ngqoko singers? Are you taking the film further…

The African folk music is super welcome in our band, but I leave this to Afrika and Ayanda to bring in this aspect to the music. I don't know this music. It is their thing. I already ask them. If they have good ideas of music that could integrate the South African folk I am more than happy but I don't know this music well enough to introduce it to the band myself. I leave it to Afrika and Ayanda and maybe now Ganesh got into it because he was doing intensive research during his stay here during July this summer, what we call summer what you call winter! I am totally into that but it is not coming from my side because I am not an expert in that.

As far as the film is concerned, yes, Klemens Shiess, she is the film maker and is accompanying us through the whole tour. Our initial plan was to make a CD and a film together, kind of a double product. Klemens had the idea of following us on several tours. Maybe have a long time report film, maybe even through several years that he would follow us on many occasions and then do a deep research film on the development of the band; that was his last idea. At this point I am not a 100% sure of it is going to be a full movie about this tour. This is not defined yet. There will definitely be a film about this band but the form now is a little bit open as there are different ideas in our heads. I am going to suggest this CD to a label I have in mind and of course I suggest them both ideas, also the CD idea and also the CD plus DVD idea and then it will also depend if they are crazy for one or the other solution, this will also make some decisions. If they say yes they definitely want the CD with the DVD this would be a reason to go on with the DVD intensely. These are open questions today. Maybe in two weeks I know more.

Will the DVD be in South Africa?

The movie will be a documentary, a road movie. If there is music in the film it will be live. It will be extracts from shows and concerts. We try as much as possible on that tour to get decent recordings from the gigs. In the end the only really good recording we got was from Grahamstown. We actually went to studio in South Africa but in the end I am more happy with the recording from Willisau than the studio recording we dd. It seems this band is burning more on stage than on studio so in the end I am going to use the live recordings.

Is there an improvisational quality to the music?

Yes. There is my name in the band name but this is really a pure administrative measure. Someone has to do the business work. And in this case I agree that and I put my name there. But, for the music it is really open and it is equal. As soon as we are on stage, everybody is creating and everybody takes decisions and everybody is welcome to really play what he wants. We have no hierarchy in music, we just play together and everybody is welcome. This is a very important point and one of the points that makes this band be what it is now. There is a very strong echo from the audience that people can feel there is something else going on with this band, something that touches them deeply that they cannot put in words and I think it has a lot to do with this. All four of us can totally identify with this music and give everything to the music without any restrictions, obligations, decisions that I take or something like that. It is really open for everybody, this music. That is really important.

What about this composition ‘We di Grav Nabel Schlyche'?

How the Grey Mist Creeps. It is a Swiss folk song. I have a very emotional relation to this song. When my sister got babies, twenty years ago, all of my family are musicians and twenty years ago we recorded some children's songs, all of my family, for the small kids of my sister. And I totally forgot about this tape. And I couple of years ago my sister gave me this CD with these recordings that we did. And in the meantime my mum had passed away. And then I put this CD and there is the voice of my mom singing this song that we play now. It was an overwhelming emotion to hear her sing now she has gone away. It is a very personal thing. The voice is much more personal than a photo. It was a very intense experience. My daughter was listening to this CD a thousand times at least. I listened to the song over and over again and regardless of my emotion to it, it is a really beautiful song and it might be worth playing it and that is why it ended up in the repertoire of the band.

Do you tell this story to the audience?

This story is an inspiration to me and it might be an inspiration to my fellow musicians but in the end I think that music is an abstract art form. I don't want to guide the listeners imagination. Everybody creates their own film and their own emotion and their own experience, through the music they can hear. I don't want to canonise this. I don't want to give this a direction. With this kind of story, people think they have to feel this or that. It is not the way I think about it. I want to leave people free with what they do, with what they can hear. I don't want to push them anywhere while listening to the music, they go where they want.

On the story of Rain … ?

Mkhize means the Rainmaker. One of his ancestors when he came to South Africa the rain was coming so, one of his ancestors brought the rain. That is why his name is the rainmaker. I would never of course call my band the Rainmakers. I know what it means the Rainmaker in Africa. It is a big thing. It would not be appropriate for a guy like me to call his band the Rainmakers. The only thing that allows us to call this band the Rainmakers is that story with Afrika's name.

Does this give you a sense of greatness?

I hope I am aware of what Rainmakers means in countries like South Africa. I hope we don't make anyone angry with this.

Everybody comes together in this band. Everybody seems to be really happy and seems to identify with what this band can talk about on stage. We don't even talk a lot about it. We just feel everybody. We agree on some very basic things we cannot put in words and this of course is a big gift. You can never make this. It just happened. Somehow I had the idea of bringing these four people together and the rest it wasn't me, it was us. I am really very grateful for this. It is as magic for me as the audience. I just appreciate it and try to keep it alive by being a bandleader that finds gigs and publishes records blah blah blah and does things that are necessary to keep a band alive. Actually it is a big gift. I cannot say it differently.

In terms of education, do you include this experience?

I always try as a teacher to bring in my experience as a musician into my teachings. It seems to be a little bit easier when I teach ensembles, when I teach bands playing together. This is more directly the same. When you teach your own instrument this can be a little more instrumental and technical ad sometimes we do get a little more carried away by technical and instrumental aspects of the story and maybe sometimes are less focused on the musical side of it. But, of course there are some very inspiring things how Ayanda and Afrika play, how they act and how they talk also.

For instance Ayanda told me he never owned a drum set. The only chances he got to play a drum set was rehearsals and gigs. He is very radical. He says, practicing only makes you selfish because you start to play egocentric shit that you practiced at home instead of listening to the music and just playing the music. This idea is quite provocative somehow in a country like Switzerland that is so proud on the educational part of everything. We have such a different approach to many things, a more abstract and educational approach so this statement was really shaking me, wow that is something else. And Ayanda is the proof. He is one of the greatest musicians I ever met. It is true that one hundred thousand percent of what he is playing is music. He is always contributing to the music. It is never bullshit. It is just the music. He is the living proof that this works.

On the other hand I know Afrika practices a lot of piano and he is thinking a lot about the music on the abstract level. He is as great. He has the same one hundred percent of music and no bullshit. So, I wouldn't say it is the only way to go there. But for me, it was a very radically different idea of how to become a musician. But this is a long process. I really have to think about this and integrate this in my vision. This is so super different from how I live it. It is taking some time to show concretely in for instance what I do as a teacher.

What about this five hour rehearsal?

When we first met in Switzerland, our first quartet rehearsal. In the 2011 Grahamstown festival there were jams with Afrika and Ayanda and some other people. We jammed late nights. Coming together the four of us was just before our first Swiss tour and that was 2012. And the first rehearsal was just five hours non stop. And every song went at least half an hour and everybody was playing his ass off. Usually when you practice with European guys they play one chorus and they don't get wet. At this rehearsal everyone just played with everything he had. It was such a different experience. Even the rehearsal was super intense. And these days they still are. When we rehearse it is almost as intense as a concert which is very unusual for me, a Swiss musician, practicing with other Swiss musicians. This is not so common, this devotion.

You will be in South Africa to perform at the Orbit in March?

We play 28 th March at the Cape Town Jazz festival. We are booked on the 10 th of April at the Orbit. We are working on more dates in South Africa, between these two gigs we want to get as many gigs as we can. We are a bit restricted. We have to keep away from Cape Town, not to be in congruence with the festival gig of course. This is a big gig. We cannot play around the corner five more times. We will definitely try and play Joburg, Pretoria area and maybe Durban. Please keep yourself updated on the website.

There is a link between Orbit and Birds Eye.

Yes I have heard about that. It is a great thing of course.

Have you engaged in the Orbit live recording platform?

We go step by step. We have one CD out. The next step is to bring out the second CD. And when that CD is out I will start thinking about recording the third one. It is good that you mention that, maybe in the meanwhile I will be willing to record the Orbit gig.

Thank you

A Happy House in Exile: A Tribute to Makaya Ntshoko

Makaya Ntshoko was born in 1939. He grew up in Cape Town, his father was a church musician, who played organ. Music was always there. In the boy scouts as a cub, he played the bugle. Lilly was a close friend. They took lessons from a Jewish bass player called Castle. They jammed during the breaks of the bigger bands.

Makaya got started with Dannis Boy on Alto. Cups and Saucers Nkanuka gave them a chance to jam and play. They listened to American jazz such as Ellington and Parker and they played with vocal groups and concerts at UCT with George Kussel , Cups and Saucers Nkanuka, Abdullah Ibrahim (then Dollar Brand), Dudu Pukwana and others.

Makaya moved a lot between Cape Town and Joburg. They played American jazz and Kwela. He played gigs in Johannesburg with Kippie Moeketsi and Hugh Masekela and formed the Jazz Epistles with Abdullah Ibrahim (then Dollar Brand) and Johnny Gertze.

Makaya said, “I was really young, there was no time to waste. So much was happening. We did not look for problems but looked to solve the problem.”

They played at clubs and hotels of white friends.

When Abdullah Ibrahim and Johnny Gertze returned to Cape Town, Makaya stayed in Jo'burg and was asked to join King Kong. He was on the second trip of the King Kong musical and returned to South Africa with half of the troupe in 1961. King Kong had become such a routine. You could not leave or be creative. But they also went to see other shows and were impressed by the professionalism.

In South Africa Makaya formed his own band The Jazz Giants with Dudu Pukwana (sax) , Nikele Moyake (sax) , Tete Mbambisa (piano) , Mankunku Ngozi (trumpet) , Martin Mgijima (bass) and Conzile (singer). They played progressive jazz and tunes like Killer Joe, Miles' tunes, nice swinging. But they would also play Kwela because the audience demanded it and wanted to dance.

They were hanging out at Dorkay house (union), which was a meeting place. They made good money in general, “and the union could assist when you were broke,” he said. They did not record because Makaya did not want to record popular music or Kwela. Jazz at that time was very progressive, such as the compositions of Gideon Nxumalo (for example Wits Concert of “Jazz Fantasia” Sept. 1962.)

Makaya Moves to Switzerland

At the end of 1962 Makaya left South Africa again. There were problems, Mandela was out on bail at the time. “You had to decide. Musicians want to solve problems then as now. You do not feel good as long as these problems are there. Too many people are suffering. I was brought up in church and trust in God – I did not doubt,” he said.

He went to Basel and Zürich where he joined the Dollar Brand trio. They played at the Africana and in the Atlantis at Basel.

Bruno Spoerri writes, “On 05/10/1962 there is a photo taken with the trio in Zurich. Radio 5 Zurich has more titles. After a long search I found the tapes at Radio Zurich and another photo from that time. In Africana the trio performed 5-7 and then 9-11 pm. 7-9 was the time of the Zurich musicians. There very often developed joint sessions with musicians such as Hans Kennel, Franco Ambrosetti and I often played with the trio. In the winter of 1962/64 Walter Gloor recorded the trio in Africana. The tapes have surfaced again a few years ago and give a pretty clear picture of how the trio played at the time.”

At the Africana a friend of Duke Ellington spotted them and pointed them out to Duke. Next thing they were in Paris with Duke recording “Duke Ellington presents the Dollar Brand Trio” and also one with Beattie Benjamin. Coltrane also came to see them in Zürich at the Africana after Makaya had gone to attend one of his concerts and had invited him to come.

Makaya said, “There were so many stations: Germany, Denmark, England, France, the US (California and the US) – you have to be a wanderer,” he said.

He was house drummer at the Montmartre in Copenhagen in the late 1960s, the Domizil in Munich (mid-1970s) and in Berlin he was the house drummer for a while at the Jazz Jamboree. He constantly had a problem with permits and therefore made Basel his base.

Recordings with the Tsotsi's and New Tsotsi's Switzerland

He recorded live at the Antibes Jazz Festival, July 20th, 1977 with trumpeter Hannibal Lokumbe . He recorded for Enja records with ‘The Tsotsis,' which including Swiss musicians, Heinz Sauer (sax), Bob Degen (piano) and Isla Eckinger (bass) in 1978 and ‘The New Tostsi's which included Andy Scherer: (sax); Vera Kappeler (piano) and Stephan Kurmann (bass). The songs they recorded included Humpty Dumpty; Open Or Close; Morning Song; One World; I'm Your Pal; Bebbi; Happy House.

 

All information and direct quotes sourced from an interview with Makaya Ntshoko by Veit Arlt, via telephone 25 th April 2006. Further information from an interview with Veit Arlt via Skype by Struan Douglas November 2014.

 

 

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